The Inner Work of Curiosity

A conversation about getting curious about ourselves with Ryan Burke and Carla Silver:

Carla: This year we've been writing about curiosity. Sometimes the hardest thing for me to get curious about is me -  what is going on inside and how I show up on the outside.

Why is that?  I’m always around, so it’s not like I don’t have access to me or time to sit down with myself and ask questions. Maybe I already know everything I need to know.  The more likely answer is that I feel some trepidation  by what I might discover when I finally do take the time to get curious about me.  What could I possibly be afraid of finding out?

Ryan:  Yes, exactly. For me, I am just afraid of feeling feelings.  Especially those that don’t feel good. When I act based on something I think someone else wants, it feels like an act, and I rationalize that it is kind to act as others want, and then I am confronted with how it feels to be out of attunement with myself, and I prefer to pretend that it didn’t happen.  But it did happen, I usually don’t feel good about it, and getting curious brings those feelings up.  The brave version of me leans in. The fearful version of me pretends to be confused or unclear, but I am always clear internally, I am the problem, and this gives me all the agency and power, but also all of the responsibility.  I am a capable and responsible person, so I am curious why I sometimes try to hide from responsibility.  It is easier to pretend I don’t know.  But I do know.  I think this leads me to getting tired of myself, the same old feelings, problems, patterns and challenges, all my fault and sometimes I feel like my patterns and I are permanent roommates.  How do I get new roommates or get my own place? 

Carla: I love the idea of our faults and patterns being roommates. I definitely need a new roommate!  As for your question, well for me, it requires me to pay attention, and, as you said, be brave.  These are two separate things.  Paying attention means being fully present and that is easier said than done these days with the myriad distractions in my life.  My multitasking is pathological at times. In fact, it is one of the patterns I need to get curious about.  It’s not good because it doesn’t allow me to have any focus and I get sloppy, disorganized and out of touch both inside and out.

Being brave is harder and I find that I prefer to do this inner work with somebody else who can shine a little extra light  where maybe I am sweeping things under the carpet. It’s like Anders Ericsson talks about in his theory of Deliberate Practice.  To get better at something, you need another person to give you feedback. And this feedback can be in the form of asking reality great questions.  Also, when I do this with other people I tend to get a lot of reassurance that I am not the only person who gets in their own way.  Just hearing you talk about some of your patterns makes me feel braver about exploring mine.  But what do we do once we identify these patterns and how do we move forward?

Ryan: Transparently, I don’t really know.  I have certainly tried many different things, and in the spirit of Thomas Edison, explored thousands of ways that have not worked.  Not to dodge the question, but I wonder if forward is a real thing or place? Sometimes when I hear someone say, “move forward” I wonder where that is in space and time.  Do we mean, forward in time, and if so, I don’t need to do anything, it happens on its own, and if lucky, I will experience the future when it arrives.  Do we mean forward in a way that requires agreement with others as to the correct and proper path for me?  If so, I am dubious as to whether forward is a real place or a goal worth shooting for. Do we mean forward to a moment in time where we feel “better?”  If this is the case, I can imagine many interventions, but they also introduce the possibility of feeling worse. 

I don’t think I want to move forward as much as I want to move backwards.  Back towards the present moment.  In that way, I think my answer to your question is that awareness is all there is, and I like to think of my best moments as witnessing myself truthfully and only in the present moment.  Mindfulness, meditation, nature, music, exercise are all pathways to the present moment for me.  My analytical mind wants to consume thoughts, and it is always looking for more ideas to evaluate, but that moves me forward or away from myself.  When I am grounded and present, I experience my work as a gift and even when things are going wrong, I am energized and engaged to participate.  Carla, I wonder how we don’t move forward, but do learn from experience and I wonder if a barrier to curiosity is the constant nomadic push to move somewhere besides where we are? What do you think? 

Carla: I see what you are saying.  It’s like the whole world is wired for the new and improved versions of things and that extends to human beings and our obsession with self-improvement. Carla Silver 2.0 or Ryan Burke 8.0 or whatever the latest make and model is.  We tend to look externally for that improvement and to external standards to measure that improvement, and that is inherently problematic. It is what enmeshment is all about - trying to be something that is based on the standards of others and trying to meet those external sources of approval.  

So maybe it isn’t about moving forward or backward but more like moving inward and trying to better examine our own motivations, values and standards so thoroughly that when we show up, we are both aware of what is happening on the outside but also so fully grounded in those aspects of ourselves that we can only act, behave and respond in ways that are truly authentic and not wrapped up in what others want or need or vulnerable to outside circumstances.  So the inner work - what we get curious about - might be those values, motivations and personal standards that ground us and that we can return to when we find ourselves showing up out of balance or seeking approval from others.  And of course these shift and evolve based on the context and experiences of our lives, so it has to be an ongoing process of assessing those things and revisiting that inner landscape. 

So, Ryan, if someone wants to do this kind of work, where can they go?

Ryan: Santa Fe, New Mexico - November 7-10, 2024…L+D is ten years old this year, and our oldest program is back this year after taking a year to rest and recuperate.  Our mission as an organization is to build capacity, and we have always been committed to helping leaders do the inner work needed to persevere through the highs and lows of school life.  If you are interested in diving deep into your inner landscape in the mountains of New Mexico fueled by red and green chile, great colleagues and a magical setting, our Santa Fe Seminar is the professional development opportunity you have always needed.