“But I Want to Hear It”
Recently New York Times journalist Ezra Klein and writer Ta-Nehisi Coates engaged in a conversation about Coates’ new book, The Message, and on their differing views on what is unfolding in Israel and Gaza. At one point in the interview, Klein asks Coates a question.
Coates states: “You’re not going to like my answer.”
Klein responds, “But I want to hear it.”
It’s a remarkable interview with two intelligent thought leaders sharing their direct, nuanced and even opposing views about one of the most sensitive current events in our world. Families have been fractured; friends avoid speaking directly about it. Even in my seemingly aligned community, there are startling sharp differences in how we see this conflict unfolding, with whom we sympathize and what the “solution” is. And, even though we may possess the skills to talk about it, we often choose to avoid discussing something both difficult and important.
Yet these two thinkers spent 90 minutes talking through their differences by asking hard questions, listening deeply, finding a few points of commonality and yet continuing to civilly disagree.
What they modeled, at the core, was how to approach a topic that may seem unapproachable, how to ask probing questions and, ultimately, to listen to the other’s answers without shutting the other down.
Some of their lines that stood out:
“I’ve been sitting here thinking about the question you asked, because it doesn’t sit with me. It’s not your question that doesn’t sit well with me. It’s actually my answer.”
“I think I agree with half of this.”
“Go ahead. Go ahead. Good, I’m going to shut up. I’m going to shut up. Go ahead.”
Next week, we will experience another highly contentious and very close election whose results will certainly make about half of the country unhappy. As school leaders we need to prepare ourselves and our students to engage in the most challenging and emotionally charged conversations rather than avoid them. The goal is not necessarily to resolve differences, but to be able to bravely engage in conversations that lead to more empathy, understanding and even hope.
The fall 2024 issue of “Learning for Justice” from the Southern Poverty Law Center offers an article on “Dialogue Across Difference.” In it, Brandon Haas states: “Dialogue across differences is not simply for one person to change their beliefs; instead, dialogue focuses on growth and progress through newfound understanding of others.”
It’s incumbent upon us as educators and leaders to better prepare our schools to engage in these difficult conversations for the sake of community, belonging and democracy.
Here are a few of the questions we at L+D are reflecting on:
Are we willing to allow students and school communities to engage in–rather than avoid–dialogue about what is very difficult and perhaps most important?
What does it mean to listen in a truly emotional moment and to be uncomfortable?
How might we talk to someone we are close to about a personal or political topic without the fear of being canceled, shamed or shut down?
What are the critical life skills we want our students to learn about dialogue? What practices can we put in place to begin the journey of talking more intimately about what matters most?
How might schools use timely and even predictable events - like elections - as learning opportunities for the future?
If we approach conversations across different ideologies and viewpoints as a skill building muscle, how might we model and teach how to practice and engage in these conversations?
Some ways in to build conversation and listening skills:
Model the art of conversation. Share public conversations and debates like Klein and Coates’ with students. Use examples where people from very different backgrounds talk frankly and find commonality. In this video from Stand Together, two gangs and the Dallas police joined together to reduce violence and to “find common ground without compromising convictions.”
Watch this film. “Finding Common Ground” from University of Virginia where students with differing ideologies practice coming together with a shared experience of painting a mural.
Tell more stories: Encourage more empathy interviewing and story-telling between individuals before diving into the most heated moments of a debate. The best and easiest prompt is “Can you tell me a story about a time when you… (felt most at home; connected to your core values; excited about the political direction of the country; connected to your community). The Story Corp project offers a new program called One Small Step where people come together “with different views together to record a conversation (10 minutes)— not to debate politics — but simply to get to know each other as people.” I’ve signed up. I’m nervous but also curious about where the conversation may go.
Provide some sentence stems. Elena Aguilar in The Art of Coaching Teamsoffers prompts to use as the beginning of difficult conversation.
“Let me see if I can understand what you are saying. I hear…”
“I agree with several points you make and I want to challenge you on…..”
“I disagree with you about that. Can I share my reasoning?”
“I hear what you are saying but have you considered…?”
Bring down the temperature. Practice with students, family members and colleagues on softer topics. There are many versions of the game, “Would you Rather?” as an easy launch point for opening up conversations on difference. Examples include “Would you rather see 1,000 butterflies at one time or 1,000 starfish?” These soft ways allow children to share their opinions in lower stake situations as a foundation for being able to disagree and keep talking.
Have very clear protocols for these conversations. This includes having clear agreements, time out options and repair protocols for when things get messy. It’s also helpful to have a designated “observer” or formal ways to regularly check in with a group to surface dynamics that might be occurring in the moment. Pausing the conversation for this kind of check in helps with the overall health of the group. Conversations don’t always need to be formally concluded; they can stop and begin again as long as it’s a noted part of the process.
Ultimately we need to ask better questions.
At L+D, we believe asking better questions is a foundational skill for life, relationships and for school change. When we work with schools, we ask them to frame “How might we…” and “What if….?” questions as part of almost every project we undertake. This format allows participants to wonder in an open and non-judgmental way about what might be instead of what is or even what “should” be. “How might we create a school culture that encourages civil disagreement and debate?” or “What if we set aside time for students and adults to practice disagreeing?” or “How might we create protocols and approaches to civilly disagree?” Spending time answering these questions is a way to lay the foundation for future discussions. The Right Question Institute offers educators many lessons and approaches to helping teachers and students practice framing questions in order to set the stage for stronger conversations.
A truly great question is without agenda and is motivated by genuine curiosity and also requires deep listening. Krista Tippet, the open-hearted and skilled interviewer from On Being adds her perspective: “I absolutely think the companion to listening is the art of asking better questions. In American life, we mostly trade in answers. And a lot of what calls itself a question or presents as a question is actually not questioning. It’s a kind of tool or weapon to incite or corner or catch or entertain. The question is often about how it makes the questioner look and not really about what it’s going to elicit.” In schools, we often reward “being right” over “being curious” so we might need to help both students and adults distinguish between questions that are curiosity organized versus performative in nature.
We need more models of civil dialogue for students, like the one Coates and Klein shared, and less of what is often modeled in mainstream media, where polarized voices simply talk over one another. Even worse are exchanges held on social media platforms where disagreement plays out in comment boxes without face to face connection or opportunities for real listening. As Brené Brown reminds us: “People are hard to hate close up. Move in. Speak truth to bullshit. Be civil. Hold hands. With strangers. Strong back. Soft front. Wild heart.”
